She's a college Religious Studies major. I hope professors and other "experts" teach that today's Amish are diverse.
Although Amish may have religious exemption status from some U.S. laws, to me Amish is a culture driven by its Anabaptist heritage. When I speak at schools, churches, book clubs, libraries, or in radio interviews, etc., I emphasize these two points. And I love speaking to audiences, so invite me when your group wants more cultural literacy.
Since I love answering questions, I emailed this curious student. Part of my reply included:
"The ones I know and help are of the conservative orders on the spectrum - Swartzentruber and Old. The Swartzentrubers do not offer Rumspringa to their youth. I don't think Old Order speak of Rumspringa either. The two choices a teen has is
- sneak out at night to enter a forbidden life or
- remain Amish, "settle down" and join the Church
I continued my reply, "Here's another step, Amish parents and leadership pressure 18-20 year-old youth to join the Church. In these conservative orders, only Church members are allowed to marry, vote, and have hope of going to heaven. Baptism is the preamble to Church membership."
Interesting to note: pressuring Church membership is opposite of one of their Anabaptist tenets. Anabaptism teaches that baptism should be an adult's choice - no pressure. In the Amish culture, adulthood begins at 21-years.
Often outsiders see the Amish life as simple. I like what Mennonite author Doris Janzen Longacre observed, "The trouble with simple living is that, though it can be joyful, rich, & creative, it isn't simple."
Want proof? Here is a Cliff's Notes of complex Amish hierarchy. There are
- Orders (more than 20) from no technology to white-buggy to black-car Amish
- Settlements within each Order, in various locations and states. Each settlement has a
- Bishop who implements his personal sternness/leniency
- local churches under the bishop. Each church may have differing rules
- family* like us, families are different. Members of the same Amish family might conflict on their shunning practice, which creates division within a family.
I explain some of the complexities and answer curious audience questions when I speak on the Amish. When one library asked me to speak, I shared clothes from my ex-Amish son-in-law, Harvey. The fascinated crowd moved up close. They wanted to touch the handmade items and his sister's kapp.
Question: What other stereotypes have you heard about the Amish? Help me debunk some myths by adding your favorite in the comments. Thanks for liking to learn!
You can get an autographed copy from me; mail $17 (U.S.only) check or Money Order to PO Box 1032, MV, OH 43050. I'll sign and send it to you ASAP.
I always have copies to sign and sell at my speaking engagements.
(C)Copyright, 2014. Brenda Nixon
"Amish don't use telephones" is one I have often heard. I also know there are many exceptions to that "rule," depending on where the Amish person lives. Exceptions range from the neighborhood phone shanty, to those who use a phone at work such as at a factory, etc., to those who carry a cell phone on their person (discreetly) used for work as well.
ReplyDeleteYou're right Lynette. Some orders that prohibit a cell phone for personal use will permit it at the job site.
DeleteAnd, YES, Amish do use telephones. Many I know just hide it as you said on their person, or in the barn, or in the attic.
Brenda, I enjoyed your post because it gives a very good explanation of how things "work" in the Amish "rules" hierarchy. When I visited Pinecraft, the setting of my next book series, all stereotypes I'd ever known about the Amish, Mennonites, and Plain people were turned on their heads. I found it fascinating! :)
DeleteI imagine you discovered there are many different "flavors" of Amish & Mennonites. If you're talking about the Pinecraft Amish in FL, they are progressive (liberal). I know one in FL who left but, his parents didn't shun him. In fact, his Amish order is open and accepting, albeit not thrilled, about one leaving the fold. To assume all Amish are the same is to say there's only one flavor o cheese. lol
DeleteThanks for reading & leaving comments Lynette!
You're welcome, Brenda! Yes, those are the Amish I met. There's definitely a wide "blend" of flavors...I never knew there were so, so many different types of head coverings, from a crocheted one the size of a round coaster, to the very white starched covering. :)
DeleteInteresting how many different stereotypes are out there regarding the Amish. In my rural neighborhood alone, we have at least 3 different "orders". The most recent to move into the area, believe in using tractors - in fact they use those tractors (complete with cabs, heat, air, and stereos) as their daily transportation. Although I commend them for not taking their horses out on a very busy highway or in bad weather, but I find it hypocritical that they "drive" a tractor and will not drive a "licensed vehicle". It is as though this order of Amish have figured out a way to beat the English system: a system where we license our cars, pay road taxes, etc., and they pay no road taxes.
ReplyDeleteAnother Amish order which is north of us, still uses horse and buggies. They too do not pay any road taxes, but do pay the local township, where they reside, a small "token" amount of money each year to help pay the damage that their horse "shoes" cause to the roads. I'm told by the township trustees that this amount is so small it pays for about 2 chuck-holes, while they travel on nearly all of the miles of township roads.
Stereotypes? Well how many of us have always thought that the Amish were good neighbors and honest? Food for thought!
Thanks for your perspective Lisa.
DeleteStereotypes about the Amish? First of all, I dislike the word stereotype for a number of reasons. But, alas, it exists in so many ways. I recently heard that people believe the Amish do not pay taxes. That was a new one for me. (And yes, they do pay taxes.)
ReplyDeleteHere are just a few more of the numerous stereotypes that exist about the Amish:
-They all ride in black, closed in buggies.
-They all dress the same.
-They don't vaccinate. (You've written about this one before.)
-They don't go to doctors.
And the list goes on.
I'll leave the debunking of these to you. = )
As always, Brenda, interesting blog and loaded with information.
Is misconception a better word Dali? Anyhow, I'll try to "debunk" some of the ones you mentioned.
DeleteThere are white buggy Amish, some drive gray ones, and then the more familiar black. Swartzentruber buggies do not have windshields.
There are many different types of dress. And the men's hats also vary. To the untrained eye, a man's hat looks like all others however minor differences such as brim width exist.
Some do vaccinate, some don't. Our son-in-law Harvey, and our "sons" Mosie & Monroe have received no immunizations. They were Swartzentruber.
Some Amish orders regularly see doctors and dentists. The Swartzentrubers - for the most part - do not as they have their own. I blogged about that way back, "Amish Best Kept Secret."
Hope this helps - or maybe it muddies the water more. lol
Yes, misconceptions seems to be a better fit. I've even seen yellow buggies and brown buggies, which were a surprise to me. Also, I found it interesting that Indiana's Swiss Amish only use open buggies. Thanks for "debunking" those misconceptions.
ReplyDeleteHow about saying, Amish Mythinformation? *wink*
DeleteIn this blog entry, it says, "I don't think Old Order speak of Rumspringa either." I thought Old Order Amish did have Rumspringa. A couple books could shed light on that: the recent one titled The Amish written by Kraybill et al, and another titled simply Rumspringa written by Tom Shachtman.
ReplyDeleteWelcome Erik, I appreciate your comments. Even within Old Order, there are stricter and looser groups. The OOA I know, don't speak of Rumspringa but, who knows, there may be higher sects within that do.
DeleteMy experiences/relationship are with Swartzentruber & they do not offer this oft generalized notion about the Amish. In fact, one recently said he'd never heard the word until he left & started watching TV.
That's funny! So it turns out that those much-criticized TV shows about the Amish are informative, even to the Amish!
DeleteAlmost any generalization about the Amish is vulnerable to people pointing out exceptions.
ReplyDeleteRecently, I was surprised to learn that some laid-off factory working Amish felt compelled by hardship to accept state unemployment insurance payments, during the recent/current major economic downturn. I had accepted the idea that they don't take government handouts. It's hard to blame them, considering that the government forcibly took deductions from their paychecks to pay into the insurance system (their employers were not Amish, so they were not exempt).
The Amish churches should create a forced savings plan, which would be their own unemployment insurance scheme.
"Almost any generalization about the Amish is vulnerable to people pointing out exceptions." > What I blog is the standard among Swartzentrubers.
DeleteI've been surprised to learn many things since taking in my first "son" Mosie.
Yep, I know of (not personally) some Amish who accept food stamps and other governmental assistance. And one couple that takes food from an "outside" inter-church social service. Not pointing fingers, just sayin...
I've been told by many, from different Orders, that most Amish have a group insurance plan. When one in the fold experiences a medical or other crisis, the settlement's group plan pays for it.
This blog entry states, in the Amish hierarchy list, that each settlement has one bishop leading multiple churches.
ReplyDeleteMy past reading has given me the impression that each church district in a settlement has its own bishop, and that the various churches in the settlement have no entity controlling them all.
See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish_religious_practices
For Swartzentrubers, there *may* be multiple churches within one settlement under one bishop. Each church may interpret the Ordnung a tad differently. Remember though, the bishop has "helpers," i.e., the deacon, and preachers.
DeleteWelcome to the not so "simple" Amish life.
I have a question. When an amish person is shunned from a community, how come they can't move to another state or something and start fresh? Do the different communities keep in contact with one another and have a black list going?
ReplyDeleteBabs, I asked some of my ex-Amish pals to explain the process. Here's what Paul said, "they all honored each other's excommunications. Your bann would follow you to whatever group you went to and if you would've tried to start your own nobody would've joined you."
DeleteErnest said, "communities will contact each other in regard to a new 'move in'... as a backgroung check. Some new 'move-in's have a Zeugnis Breif (testimonial letter written by previous bishop in regard to this members church standing or status.) Most communities will honor each others excommunication even though they differ on church rules. The more liberal church may ask new 'move-in' to go back to former church that is offended- make peace- then return to new location. Not sure this will aline will Lester Grabers view... if not.. I stand corrected. We've had this happen on several occasions in our community."
So, yes, in a way there's a black list if one is shunned.
And Lester, mentioned above ^ said, "Ernest had the best answer so far. The church letter plays a huge role in this. It's not the final answer but if you can't get a good church letter or don't have one when you come to a new church, the ministry team in the new church will investigate. And even the team from the old church will keep tabs and will not hesitate to
DeleteInform the new team how things really are. Going from old order (like I was) to new order we did not consent to give a letter and considered them in the bann."
I've been reading non-fiction and fiction books about the Amish for sometime now and I have a question that NEVER seems to be answered,,,, POW WOW more than a few books mention it but never explain enough or go into detail. Former Amish elude that it is practiced in some sects but won't give specifics,,, Since you are writing about topics(inside) related to the culture will you include this topic??? Any info you can give will be helpful
ReplyDelete~ Thanks
Great that you like to read & learn! And thank you for reading my blog. For convenience sake, you can subscribe & the post will come to your email inbox.
DeleteAs for the expression PowWow, it refers to a meeting - or a get together - to talk things over. Nothing secretive about it.
I read somewhere that the Amish do not actually ever say, 'I love you' to their intended, their spouse, or anyone they are fond of. I often see the word 'lieb' in Amish Romance novels. For example, a character will say, "I am in lieb with him." Is this totally inaccurate? Or do they express love verbally? I have also read that they do not display much affection, and never in public. Thanks for any input on this.
ReplyDeleteLinda, my perspective is from the Swartzentruber Order - the strictest order. There are exceptions, of course, but generally Swartzentrubers do not express verbal or physical love. Period. They are most private about their physical affections, and as far as verbal...there's little affirmation from parents to their children or from one spouse to another. The thought behind not expressing affirmation to a child is to prevent that child from becoming "prideful."
DeleteSome Amish might say, "ich Liebe Dich," which means "I love you." Again, it is seldom said.
Thanks, Brenda. I was in Montgomery County, NY - not sure if it was Old Order or not. The men smiled, and tipped their hats when passing in a buggy, but the women (I interacted with two of them) did not smile at all, even when I did. The two of them also had terrible complexions. And the one who sold us some baked good in front of her home, had grease stains all over her dress - I assume it was from baking. But they were very willing to speak to me. They wore white aprons over blue dresses and white kapps. The buggies there are brown. Saw out houses on properties, no flower gardens or color - jut plain wood homes and barns the same natural weathered wood color. And I saw a young girl barefoot in a field. It would have made a beautiful photo, but I respected the 'no photos' code of the Amish. Thanks again- I want to get my facts correct since I am a writer, and do not want to write anything far-fetched or untrue.
DeleteI know you're a writer Linda, checked out your stuff. Glad you want to "get your facts correct" as too many authors make-up stuff about the Amish and readers believe it as accurate.
DeleteFrom your description it sounds like Swartzentruber Amish. They do live in NY. Our "son" - Mosie - from the Swartzentrubers came from upstate NY.
Here's a fact, you CAN take photos of Amish. Glad you brought this up. Another misunderstanding is that they hate having their pictures taken. Well, truth be known, they'll allow it & some sit up high for a pose :) My son-in-law was told that if Englishers ask, say "No," otherwise allow picture-taking.
Thanks for the input on the photo taking, Brenda.:) I gave my husband a hard time about it when he wanted to take pictures. I took a few from afar, so that faces could not be recognized. Didn't want to do anything to make an Amish person feel odd or self conscious. I'll be going back to the upstate community this spring. And maybe I'll have a few photos of Amish folks to show you. :)
DeleteSo interesting! I'm just beginning to learn what I can about the Amish. My grandmother's farm is just two miles from an Amish community and though this farm has been in our family for five generations we all know very little about our neighbors. (Wisconsin, Old Order Amish) In several shops/road stands there are signs requesting no photographs, so like most everything, that must depend on each individual community/order as well.
DeleteSorry , maybe my question was not word clearly or like the other Amish and friends of the Amish who will not address this but the POW WOW I'm referring to has to do with healing and herbs ~ Thanks
ReplyDeleteThe practice you're referring to is Braucherei and there are various opinions about its meaning and usefulness. It opens a can of worms with the Amish and ex-Amish!
ReplyDeleteOne ex-Amish said none in her district practiced it and she, in fact, called it witchcraft. Another concurred with the witchcraft idea.
The dictionary refers to this "healing" ritual as using magic, and those who do Braucherei may "heal" with prayer alone, some do energy work along with herbs, pendulums, massage, or laying on hands.
I heard of an Amish man who trusted herbs to the exclusion of standard medication or treatment. He got cancer, and continued using only herbs for his cure. He died of the disease.
Most ex-Amish I talked to said, although herbal remedies are used and valued, Braucherei is something they've not heard about in a long time and, as you said in your first question, isn't practiced in all Amish orders.
Amish across the board put a great deal of stock in natural remedies and herbs. Hope this more extensive answer helps.
I suspect that Pow Wow is/was more common among other Pennsylvania Dutch folks, although I can't document. The examples I noted were about barn art.
DeleteOh boy! More editing. I just read what you said about no rumspringa for Old Order Amish sects. Can't have that in my book then. Shows how much 'Amish' gets lumped into one big assumption. This is true with the use of celery at weddings, too. First, I couldn't get one answer as to the significance of it. But now it doesn't matter regarding my novel, (not my curiosity) because a friend of an Amish person upstate said they do not even use celery at weddings there because it gets too cold for growing it that late in the season. So not all communities use celery for weddings. Another thing learned.:)
ReplyDeleteLinda, if you're writing about weddings remember this also varies from one order to another. In the Swartzentruber order, couples usually get married a few weeks or months after the engagement is announced. And weddings typically are held on Tuesday or Thursday. It is different for higher orders.
DeleteLinda, I grew up OOA in Geauga County OH, and rumspringa is practiced here by both of what we called #1 and #2 Amish. The Beachy Amish in this area do not allow this practice.
DeleteNow that's a new one on me, #1 and #2 OOA [Old Order Amish]. And it's interesting that the Beachy, who are typically the most lenient, would not allow rumspringa. And here the Swartzentrubers don't even know about it & some never heard the word.
DeleteI guess it's different in each community, ANONYMOUS, and what each Bishop of the various districts enforces. I just learned that the Amish in Montgomery County, NY, which is the area I visited and am interested in, are called: Andy Weaver Amish.
ReplyDeleteHere is what I found: Andy Weaver Amish settled in Montgomery County near the towns of Glen and Fultonville. The Andy Weaver affiliation originates in Ohio. Settlers to this part of New York left their home community at Ashland, Ohio largely due to long-standing concerns over behavioral standards among youth in the settlement.
Andy Weaver Amish are more conservative than mainstream Old Order affiliations, but less so than Swartzentruber Amish. Andy Weaver churches typically permit more limited technology than Old Order congregations, and adhere to strict shunning.
Birthdays. Do the Swartzentruber Amish celebrate them in any way? Homemade gifts, cards, cake with candles? Again, thanks for your time in responding.
ReplyDeleteNo, Linda, typically Swartzentruber Amish do not exchange cards or make a big deal out of a child's birthday. When our Mosie turned 19 y/o, I made him a big birthday cake complete with candles . . . the first he'd ever had.
ReplyDeleteIf you scroll back to my earlier posts, you will see one on Josh's birthday where I explain the Swartzentruber ignoring of birthdays and what we did to celebrate Josh.
That is interesting. Even some "Amish" sites and Amish fiction popular authors online say that the 'Amish' (lump category) celebrate birthdays pretty much like we do. I just could not imagine that with Swartzentruber Amish, so had to ask. I am assuming those Amish birthday celebrations I read about online refer to the New Order or Beachy Amish. This reinforces to me what you've said about the diversity of Amish sects. Can't rely on all the info out there as being fact for all Amish. How nice that Josh had a birthday experience because of you. :) I will read the earlier posts about this that you spoke of. Thanks again. :) This info is a great help.
Delete