Overwhelmingly former Amish - from different orders - answered, "No!"
Ex-Old Order Amish pal John, whom I blogged about, replied, "In our community you could talk about it, as long as you didn't show any hint of disagreeing with any rules. I guess it wasn't a debate. If you openly questioned anything, it made everybody consider you odd."
Hmm, interesting.
One ex-Amish said, "the answer is no" unless you're willing to "go along with Amish agenda." Meaning, that the Amish way of dealing with questions they can't answer is to just not think about it. If one insists on bringing those questions, that individual will soon find himself in the bann - a temporary settlement shunning.
Finally, one replied that such conversation would look like this >>Get the picture?
Frustrating.
Now you know what it's really like inside the Amish.
Frustrating.
Debate and compromise isn't welcome. I've seen this mindset with the many former Amish who've come through our home. Some do NOT know how to compromise - it is their way or YOU ARE WRONG.
Some are militant know-it-alls.
Debate and compromise is an art. Not many people have developed this fine art.
But let's go beyond the Amish. I know organizations, families, cultures that resist differences or change. The leadership doesn't want to be accountable to questions.
Change is hard . . . usually resisted.
Challenging.
Risky. So they stay with tradition. Worship tradition.
Yet some churches and universities embraced compromise to where they've evolved into something different - from their original purpose. Harvard began as a religious seminary.
So here are my questions to YOU: Is it wrong for the Amish to maintain solidarity? Tradition? Or have they? Maybe today's Amish have left their original Anabaptist tenets. What are your comments?
(c)Copyright, 2014. Brenda Nixon.
The potential is there for Amish solidarity to be a good thing. They can pressure each other to live a Christian life.
ReplyDeleteOne example: out in the secular world, the ex-Amish might find that they and their children experience social pressure to dress immodestly. Theoretically, they can resist that pressure. But realistically, their children will try to conform to their peers, so modest dress is likely to be lost over the long term.
We can see with our own eyes that the Amish are very good at keeping modest dress.
Good thoughts Erik. In most orders, "live" a Christian life is all they do. Unfortunately, and I know this from the Swartzentrubers, being a Christian is a foreign concept. Just as America is a "Christian nation" and not everyone is so, the same can be said of Amish.
DeleteMankind can regulate actions but not the attitude/heart.
Deleteyes they dress modestly, how many really want to? Those questions could go on endlessly.
Is it wrong for the Amish to maintain solidarity? NO!! It is their choice and I will respect and defend their right to live according to their traditions even though I chose to leave.
ReplyDeleteThis studying of the Amish is driving me batty. They allow others to live their life in what ever manner they choose and should be given the same respect and freedom to live the life they have chosen with out being watched, studied, and written about much in the same manner as you watch and study animals. They are normal human beings, I wish people would get that.
Thanks for your comments. I asked several of my ex-Amish pals, and our "son" Mosie what they think of this wave of interest in the Amish. They don't get it either. Mosie said he was used to English staring at him when he was in a buggy.
DeleteEx-Amish appreciate my truthful, realistic blog as I share cultural literacy rather than make up romantic notions or disrespect the Amish by leading people to believe they are all the same. See "Breaking Amish Stereotypes Every Day" posted on Feb 4, 2014.
I don't believe it's wrong for the Amish to maintain solidarity. That is what has enabled them to keep their way of life. Even is people feel it's wrong, it's their way of preservation. I can't fault someone for wanting to preserve their values, culture, family, and way of life. If other groups would do that, things maybe wouldn't be the way they are concerning all of the social ills, and by that I mean just the basic do unto others rule, respect for one another, moral values, etc. I know it's not for me to say, but my hope for the Amish is that they would embrace that we are saved by grace, and all that it entails. And maybe then, there would be more room for debate and compromise without compromising their way of life, value system, and so on.
ReplyDeleteAs always, I appreciate your thoughtful comments Dali. Among the Swartzentruber Amish I know - and their "fence jumpers" - there is absolutely no debate. No free thought. It is what it is. Tradition is worshipped.
DeleteAs an ex-Amish, I respect my Amish family and community, and it bothers me to have so much information dragged out to become public info. They make it clear that they live a private life, and I wish people would respect that.
ReplyDeleteGood for you Anonymous. Most ex-Amish appreciate my truthful, realistic blog as I share cultural literacy rather than make up romantic notions or disrespect the Amish by leading people to believe they are all the same. See "Breaking Amish Stereotypes Every Day" posted on Feb 4, 2014.
DeleteEsther - who is a former-Amish and my pal - had these comments:
ReplyDelete"yes and no, the ministry (the bishop,2 ministers and a deacon) will debate on issues and yes, I have seen compromise..ie: allowing one (only) electrical outlet for medical reasons etc.The problem arises when laity tries to debate with the preachers on material issues.My personal opinion is the Amish are slowly progressing(some sects) and may surprise themselves if they'd stop and think about it.I left approx 25 yrs ago...had fun the other day noticing a certain bishop's dau mowing her lawn with a huge,fancy,self-propelled walk behind...20 yrs ago,that same Bishop would have said,'absolutely not!'...somewhere along the line someone compromised."
We respondent's tend to notice when the Amish make 'compromises.' The truth, however, is that historically, the rate of change the Amish make is not nearly keeping up with the change that is going on around them. Consequently, even with their changes, today's Amish are much more conservative relative to the world they live in than they were 150 years ago.
DeleteEXAMPLES: It was not 'conservative' to light your house with oil lamps when everyone was doing so; it did not mark you as different to ride in a buggy when everyone was also riding in one. When I started school I went to an Amish school. A generation earlier, my dad attended a public school with all his non-Amish neighbors.
Thanks for these comments placesivebeen
DeleteThere are many faith traditions in which questioning, doubts and debate are inadmissible. I think it's deadening to the soul. Many of us are brought up to believe that expressing doubts equals denial of faith. We have a hard time expressing what we are truly thinking because deep down we're afraid they might be right. It's hard to break out of that way of thinking.
ReplyDelete, "Is there room for a healthy debate about practices or faith inside the Amish culture and still be in good standing with Church leaders?" My answer is 'no'. And the more Old Order the order is, the more the word 'no' means 'no'. Once the basic ground rules have been laid down and accepted, debate will never be seen as healthy or welcome. On new issues there may be debate but there will be heavy reliance on past agreements. But, as Esther pointed out, there is a slow drift away from some old practices, but not from the old principles.
ReplyDelete